Rodney Crowell at the Americana Conference
A conversation with the 'Houston Kid' about artistic independence, integrity, and 'music from the heart'
It doesn't matter if you've been up until 3:00 AM catching some of the best "independent" talent in the world (i.e. people like Kevin Welch, Allison Moorer, Radney Foster, Lee Roy Parnell, Joy Lynn White, and the inimitable Guy Clark, who were showcasing a various venues around Nashville as part of the 2nd Annual Americana Conference), when Rodney Crowell unexpectedly calls at 8:30 AM that same morning to say he has time to squeeze in a chat with you at Fido's -- a humbly quaint coffee shop near Vanderbilt University -- you had best throw on your clothes and run to your rental car-- traces of last night's mascara and all.
You run partly because, as rock/pop singer-songwriter extraordinaire (and country music connoisseur) John Waite recently observed of Crowell, "He's the prince of country music. He's all about integrity and he's just a gigantic talent; when you mention Rodney Crowell's name in Nashville, the room goes quiet." But you also run because there may be no better person on earth at that very moment with which to discuss and define the nuances of what it means to be an independent artist of substance and soul in today's American music climate.
Crowell, in the course of delivering the previous afternoon's highly personalized and conversational "Keynote Address" at the conference, had succinctly described the kind of music the event was promoting and advocating as "integrity-driven music of the heart." Indeed, apart from Crowell's apt definition, many of the artists who are now loosely defined as being in the "Americana" or "Roots" genre have musical leanings so diverse, that pigeonholing them into one comprehensive label is tantamount to an exercise in futility. Generally speaking, they are largely those artists whose "style" is either too authentic for the current "commercial" corporate radio climate, no matter what the format, or ones whose influences are so multifaceted and "outside the box" of today's conventional big label mindset, that -- despite a level of talent that will often leave you speechless -- they haven't been afforded a full place in the early 21st Century popular music ! marketing concept.
At least not yet -- at least not until the current barriers are broken down with enough battering in from the populace. And Crowell, for one, has a passionate conviction that it can be done -- and needs to be done, and further adds that there just needs to be a "superstar" to emerge from the shadows that will bring a focus to the kind of substantial music that is out there beyond the current narrow, highly slicked and packaged AOR fodder being spoon-fed to the masses. (Indeed, it is fascinating to contemplate that some of the most esteemed names from the 60s, 70s, and 80s -- people like Bob Dylan, The Eagles, Jackson Brown, Neil Young, Mellencamp, Springsteen, and Bob Seger, as well as people like Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings, Roy Orbison, and even Dolly Parton -- and too many others to mention -- would all be classified as "Americana" or "Roots" artists today due to their lack of conformity with the current radio genre! programming, if they had just begun their careers now.)
Well before last February's release of his own critically acclaimed "indie" album, Houston Kid (a storytelling collection which depicts in starkly haunting detail Crowell's self-called "White Trash" 50s/60s era upbringing on the mean streets of blue-collar East Houston), then his first release in five years, Crowell himself has been something of a contradiction and an enigma as an artist. He had spent the first third of his 30 year career as a musician and songwriter with various bands, including Emmylou Harris' Hot Band and the star-studded Cherry Bombs, meanwhile penning hits for other artists, and producing many of his then-wife Roseanne Cash's best albums before finally breaking through as star in his own right with Diamonds & Dirt (which generated a Grammy and five consecutive number one country singles).
But despite the fact that he was always an artist who perpetually pushed the preconceived "boundaries" with his ofttimes unorthodox country/folk/rock stylistic leanings, Crowell admittedly -- and much to his own chagrin now -- played the music business game to near perfection during his mid-career commercial heyday. Nevertheless, partly because he was determined to avoid the abyss of self-congratulation or to buy into the traditional country success template, and partly because his muse very apparently continued to demand that he dig deeper for ever more peeled away authenticity, and partly because of his uncommon artistic intelligence, imagination, and conviction, Crowell's name is perpetually one you'll most often hear when the talk turns to integrity in and around the music business inner sanctums.
Not surprisingly, then -- much like the music he creates -- there is nothing ostentatious about the seemingly laid-back Crowell when I eventually find him seated at a sunny table on Fido's back porch patio. Clad as he is in baseball cap and a flannel shirt, and speaking with a soft and measured tone, the college students surrounding us are oblivious to the hometown "royalty" in their midst as Crowell begins to thoughtfully respond to questions and comments concerning the Americana Conference and "Independent" movement, his Houston Kid album, his memoir in-the-works, artistic integrity, his songwriting process and collaborations, and his new album in progress:
[Shelly Harris] Well, since I'm here to cover the "Americana" conference, I wanted to get some of your comments about that, but -- if I heard you right yesterday -- it seems to me that you have some reservations about the "Americana" label itself.
Rodney Crowell Yeah...I don't like that label.
[Shelly Harris] And you did make a good point about it alienating a lot of people like those from the UK, Europe, and Australia, many of whom actually grew up listening to folk, blues, rockabilly, Appalachian, country, rock, or bluegrass kinds of music that are all elements of what's now being called "Americana."
Rodney Crowell Yes, I think it should be "independent artists" or records, or whatever. I just think it's self-defeating and it's held it back. The mindset is really "independence"--you know?
[Shelly Harris] Yeah. And I know that many of the artists who are called "Americana" are really just undefinable by today's commercial radio standards. It's really anybody that is not currently going to be acceptable in the "mainstream" radio, with the way it is right now, because what they'll play has just gotten so narrowly defined. For example, most of the artists who are called "Americana" now, would definitely have been called "rock" or "country" or something else before...So, do you think the way to go is to still keep on persisting in trying to get it included on mainstream radio...and at least trying to get it heard so that some attention can be drawn to it?
Rodney Crowell Oh, yes! The American public needs to step up, you know!?
[Shelly Harris] Yes!
Rodney Crowell I mean, how long is the American public going to accept what they're being spoon-fed?!
[Shelly Harris] Yes, exactly. (laughs)
Rodney Crowell That is why it is important for those people who want to champion this particular mindset --and that is what it is, a heart and mindset-- to continue to fight and champion to get it into the mainstream, because, sooner or later, if the American public is up to it's...snuff, you know, it needs to cast a vote on realism in music -- I think.
[Shelly Harris] Well, I couldn't agree with you more! In fact, I just had an eerily similar conversation with John Waite last week.
Rodney Crowell Oh, yes -- I know John Waite.
[Shelly Harris] Yeah, in fact he asked me to send you his "Hello"...
Rodney Crowell Oh, good!
[Shelly Harris] Yeah, John speaks very, very highly of you and your work...
Rodney Crowell Uh-Hummm; that's great...
[Shelly Harris] And, coincidentally, we were also just discussing this exact same thing -- What is commercial, and why does the public continue to allow itself to be so blatantly spoon-fed, and what can be done to change that, especially as far as the radio is concerned.....?
Rodney Crowell Yeah! Well, I think the American public is beginning to do that -- turn it off more and more, and actually turning to talk radio and what have you. But, by the same token, the main point of what you're saying, is, yeah, we need to fight to continue to get it into mainstream. And my whole point yesterday is that the Americana/Independent integrity driven artists....Yeah, we need a Superstar, you know. We need somebody to break through, and to sell into the millions, and to draw attention to the fact that, Oh Yeah, there is a different mindset. And out of it, in the same way that Garth Brooks created this big thing that he created based on what his values were, somebody needs to create something. Ah! You know, fifteen years ago Bruce Springsteen was a Rockstar, but he'd be an Americana artist now!
[Shelly Harris] Uh-Hummm -- definitely! And I see what you mean, it just needs someone who has enough impact to bring a focus to this other kind of music out there -- a light shining brightly enough to bring more people's attention to it.
Rodney Crowell Yeah. That's why you've got to continue to aim at the mainstream with it.
[Shelly Harris] I'm certain you know more about the business than I do, but I guess that anyone halfway familiar with it knows the limitations of radio nowadays, with the way it really is with the politics, the middlemen promoters, the mega-conglomerate corporations, the money that changes hands, and all that....
Rodney Crowell Yeah, sure....
[Shelly Harris] And I guess my question is, how do you get around that? Do you just keep trying to pound at it from the outside?
Rodney Crowell Well, that mindset will collapse on itself....
[Shelly Harris] You'd have to think...
Rodney Crowell It will. Yes...The structures around it have become so...corporate-focused that it is propped up in a way that it's gonna...well, it'll take longer, but it will collapse on itself, in the same way that Pat Boone and Fabian and those guys were holding court in the late '50s before The Beatles came around and smashed it in. Elvis was going on, but there were the Chuck Berrys and the Big Joe Turners who were pounding away, because actually, Pat Boone would take Big Joe Turner or Little Richard records ...
[Shelly Harris] And homogenize them...
Rodney Crowell Yeah! And make them hits. There's an archetype that's been going on for a long time, and it eventually collapses when the public turns its attention to, "OH! Give me the real thing!"
[Shelly Harris] Oh, I see the parallel that you're referring to with that late 50's and early '60s era that I hadn't thought of before with reference to now! But, as in the period following the Kennedy assassination, sociologically people at some point have a need --a longing -- for something that has more depth...and more heart to it....just a hunger for something more authentic and true.
Rodney Crowell Well, certainly, September 11, in all of it's horror, I sure read it to be....It's smashed a crystallization of so many corporately focused illusions or delusions -- I'm not sure which it is -- so that when you break those things up, and they fall away, the natural inclination of the heart starts to rise up. And the reason we're talking -- and the music that you're trying to define -- is music from the heart.
[Shelly Harris] Uh-Hummm. Yeah...And you're right, it's not the brain, it is the heart...because, when you get the brain in there too much, you begin to put up barriers....
Rodney Crowell And it becomes what you think it is, rather than what it is.
[Shelly Harris] Now, your last album, Houston Kid, has been released since early this year, but outside the press commentary -- which has been extremely positive -- have you still been getting a lot of very personal responses from people about that album?
Rodney Crowell Yeah, Yeah! Lots of it....Yeah, you'd be surprised how much persistence people have when they want to make a point....
[Shelly Harris] Yeah.
Rodney Crowell Like yesterday! Well, you saw....[referring to the many folks who came over to talk to him about the album following his keynote speech at the Americana Conference]
[Shelly Harris] Yeah. ..Well, I guess that's especially true when there is something like that that they very strongly want to say....
Rodney Crowell Yeah...
[Shelly Harris] That album in particular, though, because it was done in such an autobiographical fashion -- plus some of the incidents and things that you portrayed...Well, I think a lot of people have experienced very similar things themselves...
Rodney Crowell Sure....Yeah.
[Shelly Harris] And much of it is about the kinds of things that aren't often spoken about....
Rodney Crowell Well, you know, alcoholism, sexual abuse, homosexuality...and spousal abuse -- those are all the kinds of things that are traditionally swept under the rug....
[Shelly Harris] Well, even more then that, I think it has something to do with the stunning realism with which they were portrayed! I'd even have to admit that I relate to some of it very strongly myself....My family is from the deep south -- Arkansas -- and we were very poor at one time....and profoundly traumatized from having a grandfather who was a raging alcoholic, and I am sure we were definitely viewed by some people -- especially in the North -- as "White Trash" too. And I'm sure that that is a pretty common experience with people from a certain background in a certain age group.....But of course, it was just the particularly artful way that you portrayed it that I'm sure caused it all to hit home even more. However, in one of the reviews I read, it implied that some of it was...."fictionalized."
Rodney Crowell Some of it is. Well, it is wasn't actually fictionalized, because it was autobiographical, but it wasn't so much about me as it was about the environment I grew up in. I mean, certainly, I never went to prison, but I other kids my age who grew up in similar situations did. And, when it suited my purpose, I would bring their experience in. But what happened was, I just kept it in first person.
[Shelly Harris] Well, it was so well done, in capturing the exact mood, and vibe, and point of view of growing up that way in those times....And I have to throw in just one more personal comment myself, in saying that I was also taken aback when I heard the "I Walk The Line (Revisited)" cut. [The song's protagonist recalls being blown away by the original Johnny Cash tune in his Granddaddy's car at age five, and the Crowell version incorporates Cash's vocals and portions of the original.] It seemed so coincidental to me, because the first song I ever became absolutely mesmerized with at age three was a Johnny Cash tune, too. For me it was "Ring of Fire"...and I played that 45 over and over and over; went around singing it to anyone who would listen. But again, I guess it really isn't so coincidental because, like so many others, I came from the same era and kind of background you did.....
Rodney Crowell Yeah...Uh-hummm...
[Shelly Harris] But I'd read before....and you mentioned this again yesterday....That you originally took the risk of funding the production of the entire album yourself before "shopping" it to a label, which is an unusual thing for an established artist to do...
Rodney Crowell Yes...
[Shelly Harris] Though I'm sure you knew someone would "take" it!
Rodney Crowell Uh-huh, yeah, I did. But it was a way for me get enough freedom for me to make exactly what I felt I needed to make....Because, you know, where I come from, when you're spending other people's money -- you tend to ask them what they want!
[Shelly Harris] Even if it's not technically in the contract, right?
Rodney Crowell Yes...It's sort of implied.... (laughs)
[Shelly Harris] Yeah, that's what I wondered....because I know there are a quite a few other established artists from various genres who have been on big labels in the past and they've recently gone the indie route too, because they are just so fed up with the monolithic corporate machine....The whole Shebang......
Rodney Crowell Yeah, sure.
[Shelly Harris] The dabbling, and the interfering artistically......
Rodney Crowell And the constraints.
[Shelly Harris] Yeah, the constraints and feeling beholden.....But I guess there's some of the indie labels now that will just let an artist do whatever they want, and they're cool with that.....
Rodney Crowell Yeah..Yeah. Well certainly someone in my position, with an indie...Well, I have enough experience where they feel pretty...safe letting me do what it is that I do....
[Shelly Harris] Oh, yes, I'm sure. And it sounds like you're working on some new things now, too...
Rodney Crowell Yeah, I'm writing....working on a book -- a memoir.
[Shelly Harris] That's right.....And how far along are you into that?
Rodney Crowell Well, probably, if I can gauge the amount of work that it will take, based on the amount of work I've done, probably half way.....
[Shelly Harris] Do you have a time frame on getting the memoir done? Because people will undoubtedly ask that, you know! (laughs)
Rodney Crowell If I were in a position in my life right now where that was all I had to do, I could get it done quickly. But I have a responsibility to writing songs, and I have a performance schedule, and unfortunately--well I shouldn't say unfortunately -- fortunately, it just so happens that writing this memoir has come at a time when my 'day job' is taking a lot of my time. A few years ago I could have knocked this thing out! But it has to be now, because it is of its time now.
[Shelly Harris] Well, I do more than one job myself, so I wonder if you ever find it frustrating juggling those different balls....Having to leave one project in the middle while you swing over to the other.
Rodney Crowell Well, I don't find it frustrating -- yet. The good thing about this project is that I had a good nine month period to get it started before my outside life superimposed itself back on me, so I was pretty far along. So, since then I have worked steadily, just not with the intensity of the first nine months. But there will be a time when everything is in place, when I know I'll have to push everything else out of the way and just do that. And I will do it!
[Shelly Harris] Are you working on it all alone?
Rodney Crowell Yeah, I work alone.
[Shelly Harris] Uh-humm. Are you doing the word-processing thing, then?
Rodney Crowell Long hand and word-processing. I start out long hand, then I load it into the word-processer to start rewriting.
[Shelly Harris] I'll be very interested in seeing the end result! But I imagine it's been a very different kind of experience for you.
Rodney Crowell Yeah! It's a great experience!....And one thing about writing memories in prose, is that it is really introducing me to part of my artistry -- and my self-realization is around the fact that I am an artist -- and writing this has brought more dimension of my understanding of myself as an artist, and it has given me a deeper work ethic, given me more resourcefulness.....Actually, writing prose, I use a dictionary quite a bit...
[Shelly Harris] How about a thesaurus? (laughs)
Rodney Crowell Yeah, I use a thesaurus! And, actually, I've knocked the dust off all he encyclopedias. (laughs)
And, you know, I've actually started researching...If there's something that I'm writing about from memory, but, if I need to substantiate a particular type of tree, I need to research it to make sure I've got the right kind of tree for the right place at the right time. And that has made me more...thorough as an artist. But it probably took maturity for my work ethic to be developed enough to take writing a book into the whole...So, I'm doing that, but at the same time, I have a collection of songs that I'm in the process of turning into another record; I'm in the preproduction stages. But now that I'm an independent artist, I don't really have a lot of leeway in the studio, so I have to really plan what I'm doing.
[Shelly Harris] To make it more efficient?
Rodney Crowell Yeah, cost efficient.
[Shelly Harris] Yeah, because otherwise, it does waste a lot of money...
Rodney Crowell Yeah, and I don't have the luxury of wasting a lot of money. I have to sort of make a record in my head and on paper, before I do it...which is good!
[Shelly Harris] Do you think that has any effect on the spontaneity?
Rodney Crowell I don't think so...When I was a younger artist, I use to think, "You've got to have the spontaneity!" (laughs)
But I've come to realize that to really become a great songwriter....which some may consider...but I won't say it -- but I think it! -- (laughs) -- If you're lucky enough to have inspiration come along, and you haven't done the ground work to have the craft and the wherewithal to turn real inspiration into what it is trying to be, what it intends to be when it picks you -- then you're not going to get it! So, therefore, the limitations of not having the money to waste makes me a more spontaneous artist, because now I plan what I'm going to do... so that the inspiration can fill up the container.
[Shelly Harris] Going back to your self-conception of yourself as an "artist"-- and I do know what you mean when you say that -- do you think that is part of what has driven your focus to try to keep that integrity that you are so known for? I mean, you alluded to that yesterday when you were talking about emptying your bank account in order to make Houston Kid, and you kind of had an epiphany when your wife simply said to you, "Well, do you feel like an artist yet?"
Rodney Crowell "Do you feel like an artist yet?" -- yeah! (laughs)
[Shelly Harris] Well, what does being "an artist" mean to you? Is it someone who strives to get to the heart of the matter? Is it digging more deeply? Is it a kind of emotional intelligence? Is it being pure and unadulterated?...What is it...?
Rodney Crowell It's probably....being blessed, you know.
[Shelly Harris] Well, yeah.... (laughs)
Rodney Crowell Well, when I say "being blessed," I mean, my gratitude runs pretty high, because when I get up in the morning, I get to have a cup of coffee, and look out the window, and say, "God! Isn't this great?! I get to make stuff up today!" And so few people get to do that, so it is being blessed. But at the same time, the bar that I set myself...Well, when you talk about integrity, those that I am drawn to -- the Bob Dylans, the Leonard Cohens, and the John Lennons of the world -- their work is the bar!
[Shelly Harris] But the thing about their work, too, is that somehow it cuts through all the mirrors and smokescreens....
Rodney Crowell Through all the bullshit! (laughs)
[Shelly Harris] That's the other word for it! (laughs)
Rodney Crowell Well, yeah, actually, those artists I just mentioned -- there's very little vanity in their work.
[Shelly Harris] Yeah...
Rodney Crowell There's none of that, "Me! Me! Me!" vanity; it is more about this is what this is. It is not about what I am-- "Listen to what I'm doing, ain't I great?!"
[Shelly Harris] Yeah, Uh-huh!
Rodney Crowell It's more like...this is what IT IS -- Isn't that what IT is?-- you know? That, to me, is integrity.
[Shelly Harris] Yes! That's true...But also, I think that what comes to mind for a lot of people concerning part of the integrity equation is not being governed by money...you know? I suppose not letting that be...your rudder.
Rodney Crowell Uh-humm. Sure, yeah!
[Shelly Harris] Of course, artists have to make money, too...But when the weight of that is greater than the other thing.....Well, I suppose that's when people think: "sell out"... (laughs)
Rodney Crowell Uh-humm, yeah.
[Shelly Harris] But I imagine it is probably easier to resist that as you get farther along in a career...rather than, let's say, at the beginning, just starting out...which is a time when any artist would naturally be hungry for whatever recognition or attention they can get....
Rodney Crowell Well, I have been guilty of pandering to that...you know. (laughs)
[Shelly Harris] Well, yeah...(laughs)
Rodney Crowell I've had my period of wandering in the darkness, you know, and making decisions based on fear and how it could get me some money. Just where I come from--being poor and from East Houston-- the thing for me that was so hard, is like if people were giving me a lot of money, I sort of paid too much attention to what I thought they wanted, as opposed to what my inner voices were telling me. At different times -- sort of the middle of my career --I got sidetracked with that. As I was saying yesterday, I know when that was my mindset in my career, and I'm not particularly proud of the work that I did at that time.
[Shelly Harris] Do you have any regrets about it, though? I mean, sometimes, you have to do what you have to do at the time.....
Rodney Crowell No. I can't regret it because I learned a valuable lesson. However, I can look back at the work and just...wince!
[Shelly Harris] Yeah...But no matter what decision anybody makes, that decision ultimately led them to wherever they are now....
Rodney Crowell Yeah. So, regrets don't serve....
[Shelly Harris] No...But you were mentioning yesterday, that nowadays when you do songwriting, you generally prefer to write alone...However, you also still do quite a bit of collaborating, don't you? Especially lately...
Rodney Crowell Yeah, I do.
[Shelly Harris] I know you were recently collaborating with keith urban, because he was telling me about it when I spoke to him this past summer.
Rodney Crowell Yeah, Yeah...I've been doing a lot with keith.
[Shelly Harris] How do those collaborations usually come about for you?
Rodney Crowell Well, it usually happens through somebody... For instance, in the case with keith, I knew keith, and I liked keith, but Larry Willoughby, his A&R guy, called me up and said, "Would you write some songs with keith?" And I said, "Of course!" -- keith is just loaded with talent.
[Shelly Harris] Oh Yeah!...Yeah, definitely.
Rodney Crowell So, I am doing a lot...But, for the most part, still the best process for me on my own records ... is to write them myself -- I'd say I do that with 80- 90 percent of it. There will be songs that I co-write....But in the case with keith, writing with keith was not about writing for me. We got together to write stuff for keith, which meant really questioning keith closely about how he saw what he saw. And it was really sort of fun to say, "Okay, let's take this, and now let's sculpt something out of nothing that is yours."
[Shelly Harris] And since you were doing that writing for his benefit, really, you probably had to put yourself in a different mindset....
Rodney Crowell Yeah, I had to leave my value system out of it, except the values I bring in terms of craft. I'm really sort of a hired craftsman there, because the language that I would want to use to act these sort of little movies that I make up, is not necessarily the language keith would use to act the little movies that he's making up. So, it is a different mindset.
[Shelly Harris] You think some good stuff came out of that, then?
Rodney Crowell Oh, yeah, yeah!
[Shelly Harris] It might have been written elsewhere, but what is your own "routine" for writing a song.....or do you have one? (laughs)
Rodney Crowell My routine for writing songs for me is to observe, read, look at art, you know.....I can't have any routine for writing, because the real good writing only happens when inspiration comes up and taps me on the shoulder. So, by observing and reading and going to movies, reading books on art, meditating, taking long walks -- it's all to keep the channels open and the craft in place, so that if inspiration comes I can get it in its totality. That's it; there's no more to it than that.
[Shelly Harris] Of course, the intangible is the particular mind that is processing all that information, and I guess that is what makes an artist/songwriter individual and unique.
Rodney Crowell Well, I try to keep my mind out of it; my mind is the enemy to art.
[Shelly Harris] Well, what I mean is, some people, their inner nature -- their artistic nature -- is to observe life in more explicit detail; it is just part of their make-up...you know? You either have it or you don't have it, and it's just a matter of refining it, I guess.
Rodney Crowell Uh-Hummm; I do try to observe in more detail. My wife is actually becoming very understanding. When we were first together, when a beautiful woman would walk by, I would look at her -- closely -- you know? (laughs)
[Shelly Harris] Yeah.....(laughs)
Rodney Crowell In detail...no different than I might look at a beautiful man that would walk by...or a grizzled bum! The way I would really look a them....and early on my wife would say, "What are you doing?" and I'd say, "I'm looking at her." And it was not about....Well, it could have been lustful, but, you know, sometimes observing produces lust, and sometimes observing produces compassion. But, to my wife's credit, she has come to understand that I am just observing...and it is not at her expense.
[Shelly Harris] Yeah, I understand what you mean.....But the material for the new album you're working on now, do you have any idea yet what direction it's going in? Or any idea about a theme?
Rodney Crowell Oh, yeah, I do...But if I said it, and got into the making of it and it changed....Well, I do have an idea, and I have a structure, and I have a concept that is drawing me, but I don't know until I finish it what it is.....
[Shelly Harris] Yeah, I do know...It has to be similar to writing other things, too...And you really don't know until the end....
Rodney Crowell Yeah, when you write it just to write it....It will teach you what it wants to be, as opposed to you enforcing what you want it to be.
[Shelly Harris] Absolutely...Well, Rodney, I'd better let you go...But thanks for fitting me in on this beautiful morning.
Rodney Crowell Oh, Sure...I'm sure we'll meet again sometime.
[Shelly Harris] Yeah, I'm sure we probably will! Thanks again, and best of luck with the new album and memoir; I'll be looking out for them.